Wii Sports Part 1 - A Truly Ground-breaking Collection of Games Part 2 - Did Anyone Say It Should Look Realistic? Part 3 - They Tried To Serve An Imaginary Ball! Part 4 - Games That Even the People Watching Can Enjoy # Satoru Iwata President and CEO, Nintendo Co., Ltd. # Katsuya Eguchi Entertainment Analysis and Development Division EAD Software Development Department, Software Development Group No. 2 # Keizo Ota Entertainment Analysis and Development Division, Design Technology Group # Zenichi Yamashita Entertainment Analysis and Development Division EAD Software Development Department, Software Development Group No. 2 # Takayuki Shimamura Entertainment Analysis and Development Division EAD Software Development Department, Software Development Group No. 2 Part 1 - A Truly Ground-breaking Collection of Games Iwata: The developers of Wii Sports have joined me to kick off our series of interviews on Wii software. So without further ado, I would like each of you to introduce yourself, beginning with Eguchi-san. Please also explain in layman's terms what you have worked on up to now. Eguchi: My name is Eguchi, and I work in EAD (Entertainment Analysis and Development Division). I was the producer for Wii Sports. In the past, I have worked on projects such as creating the levels for Super Mario World. More recently, I was the producer on Animal Crossing: Wild World. I should add that I was also in charge of Wii Play, which was developed at the same time as Wii Sports. Ota: My name is Ota, also of EAD. I was the director of Tennis, one of the five games in Wii Sports. I have worked on numerous projects, but presenting the "100 Marios" demo on stage at the unveiling of the GameCube was one of the more interesting ones!(laughs) ["100 Marios" was a demo shown at the unveiling of the GameCube at SpaceWorld 2000, a video game trade show hosted by Nintendo, held at the Makuhari Messe in Chiba. Beginning with a single sprite, the number of Marios on-screen increased until there were over 100 displayed.] Yamashita: I'm Yamashita, and I work in EAD. I was in charge of Baseball and Boxing for Wii Sports. Recently, I have been involved in Big Brain Academy. Before that, I worked on Pikmin and Pikmin 2. In the past, I worked on the Mario Artist: Talent Studio project. But perhaps that is going too far back? Iwata: Not at all! I may well ask you about that later! (laughs) Shimamura: My name is Shimamura, also working in EAD. I was the director for Golf and Bowling on Wii Sports. I moved to EAD three years ago, and recently worked on Nintendogs. Iwata: Thank you. Now, let's begin with you, Eguchi-san. Could you describe for us how you began developing Wii Sports? Eguchi: It initially grew out of the development of the Wii Remote, which is one of Wii's best features. During the development of the Remote, we did a range of trials to see what it was capable of. The prototype software we used included things like a baseball game designed by Yamashita-san, and a tennis game that Ota-san came up with. Wii Sports came about as a result of our discussions about how to turn these into fully-fledged games. Iwata: So you didn't start development with the intention of producing Wii Sports. Rather, you started by trying to design some trial software that would push the Wii Remote's capabilities to the limit. Ota-san, could you tell us about the process which led to the development of the Tennis prototype? Ota: I was a member of a small team of programmers that worked on all sorts of prototype software even before it was decided that the current Wii Remote would become the controller for Wii. So we really had a whole range of different sample controllers, for each of which we were tailoring specific prototype software. As Tennis was one of the games born out of that, it wasn't actually the result of a clear intention to develop something specific. As the Wii Remote is rod-shaped, it didn't take us long to come up with the idea of making a tennis game. Once we'd produced it, it was immediately apparent how well it worked. That's honestly how it happened. Iwata: I think the secret behind the creation of Nintendo's controllers is the seamless way that work on the prototype controller hardware is combined with the development of prototype software for those controllers. What I mean is, no sooner is there an idea for a controller from the hardware development side than the software developers come up with something to test it with. The hardware side then takes on board the feedback from this. Wii Sports came about as a result of that process, repeated over and over again, didn't it Ota: That's right. We really did produce a huge amount of trial software. A number of these ideas have been refined and ended up in Wii Play. Iwata: I wonder what it's like to have to keep coming up with new prototype software. I imagine that you had a constant stream of controllers coming, with all kinds of designs you would never have imagined. You then had to develop software specifically for use with each one. As there was no guarantee that any would end up as actual Nintendo products, you could only rely on your own instincts and inspiration... Ota: Well, it was quite fun. Actually, it was a lot of fun! How can I put this...? It is much more fun to get new controllers one after the other, and then develop software as the inspiration takes you, than it is to try to think of new things to do with just one conventional controller, as we have up to now. Moreover, as the ultimate goal isn't to produce a finished product, we could stop working on something after getting a certain amount of feedback. This meant that we were working on an extremely fast cycle, and we could just keep putting all of our ideas into action. As you can imagine, that's a really fun job! Iwata: So basically you got to spend all your time doing the part of the job you like the best! (laughs) Ota: Yes, I did! I was able to keep making whatever I wanted, and stop at the point I wanted! (laughs) Iwata: Sounds like your dream job! Ota: It may well be! (laughs) Iwata: Yamashita-san, tell us about the development of Baseball. Yamashita: To be honest, the primary motivation behind it was the fact that no one else had made it! (laughs) I looked at all of the prototype software that people in the company had developed, but for some reason no one had made a baseball game. So I decided to try making a baseball game and the feel of it was really good. I got members of other teams to take a look at it and the game's development was, in a way, a joint effort with Ota-san's team. Iwata: I see. How about Golf, Shimamura-san? Shimamura: Golf began life as a mini-game in a different game altogether. It was initially developed not as a full golf game, but as a putting game. To turn it into a full golf game would have been a really large-scale undertaking, with courses to design and so on. But in the end, Ota-san and Yamashita-san's projects combined and gradually expanded into a kind of "sports collection," featuring several sports games. I was fortunate enough to be able to join forces with them. Iwata: You just used the word "collection." The idea of releasing a product consisting of a number of games is one that was formulated during the course of Wii's development. The producer overseeing the whole project was Eguchi-san. Now, putting games together might sound simple, but it was a difficult task, wasn't it? Eguchi: It really was. After all, there were a lot of demos out there. You might even say it was chaotic! (laughs) Ota-san just spoke about how happy he was to be able to make the software he liked, and then stop making it at whatever point he liked, but... Iwata: I have experience working as a producer, so I know that from the point of view of the person who has to bring everything together, that can be a real nightmare! (laughs) It's like having all these delicious-looking raw ingredients lying scattered around the place, but they still haven't been mixed together to actually make something edible. Eguchi: Absolutely! That's exactly what it's like. I was always agonising over how I should cook all these ingredients for my guests. At that time, (Shigeru) Miyamoto-san was also puzzling over how best to put the games together. Then one day - and this was extremely unusual - Miyamoto-san jotted down a plan on a piece of paper for how we should put that chaotic pile of ingredients together. Iwata: Really? Miyamoto-san wrote it down on a piece of paper? Eguchi: He did! (laughs) I had never seen him do it before either. When I saw what he wrote I thought: "That must be what the inside of his head looks like!" It was that kind of plan... Iwata: I once got him to show me his specification document plan for Pikmin. I say specification plan, but it was actually just a sheet of paper with things scribbled on both sides. You know what Miyamoto-san is like; he won't get involved until the project is in real trouble and things are getting desperate, then he'll suddenly present the producer with one of his sheets of paper! (laughs) But for Wii Sports, he managed to get this to you early on? Eguchi: That's right. I'm sure Miyamoto-san felt that we really had to get this into shape ready for the launch of Wii. Iwata: I'm sure that's what he felt. Just out of interest, what kind of instructions did he write down? Eguchi: Well, I shouldn't say this, but it was a really messy diagram! (laughs) All: (laughter) Iwata: Did it include the "Health Pack" idea that Miyamoto-san has been talking about a lot recently? [The "Health Pack" is the working title for a future release for Wii, announced by Shigeru Miyamoto at a conference held in mid-September. He described it as a way to help get families exercising together.] Eguchi: Yes, it did. He was trying to push the idea of Wii as a tool at the heart of the living room, connecting families, so that idea was clearly written down. From the "Health Pack" through to further ways to connect families, it looked like he'd emptied all of the jumbled contents of his head straight onto the paper! (laughs) But, in all seriousness, he wrote everything we needed to do on that paper. He roughly divided all of the trial software we had into categories for sports games or games for all the family. Those family-oriented games went on to be included in Wii Play. He also wrote that we should sell those games bundled with the Wii Remote, as well as explaining the way that the calendar on the Message Board would work in conjunction with these games. This was a function aimed at getting people to switch their Wii on every day. When people play Wii Sports or Wii Play, their results are automatically posted on the calendar in the Message Board. Miyamoto-san had broadly outlined functions like this in the plan he wrote down. That single sheet of paper turned out to be the actual starting line for the development of Wii Sports. Iwata: Just to clarify, had you been put in charge of overseeing the project at that time? Eguchi: No, I hadn't. Iwata: So, what you're saying is that you looked at that piece of paper without knowing that you would be the one charged with the task of realising it? (laughs) Eguchi: I had absolutely no idea! (laughs) Iwata: I see! (laughs) When Miyamoto-san first explained the concept for this game collection to me, I thought that we were really breaking new ground. Normally, we might either release software which revolves round a main part, with a few mini-games, or else a collection of lots of mini-games. But with Wii Sports, we have collected five games. The way games have been made up to now, if we thought we could develop Tennis, for instance, into a great game, we would first polish it so it could be a stand-alone release. We would make lots of different modes, get licensed by the Tennis Association or whatever and then put Mario in as a character, if it was a Nintendo game. That would have been the most obvious way to do things. Eguchi: The reason we didn't end up doing that is chiefly that we felt we had to get the product finished quickly. That's because Wii Sports is an ideal game for demonstrating to users how fun the Wii Remote is. Iwata: So we really wanted to release it at the same time as the hardware. Eguchi: Yes, we had to get it ready in time. For that reason, we decided we had to prepare it for release as efficiently as we could, without allowing it to grow excessively large in scale. On top of that decision, we also had fixed in our minds something that you had said before: "Not every game has to be like an encyclopedia. There is nothing wrong with magazines or comics. If the idea is good enough, it's ok to keep it simple." So even if it's not the most stunningly gorgeous game of all time, we chose to produce a game which can compete on the merits of its content, which while simple, also has real depth. Iwata: I believe that a collection of games like this is truly ground-breaking. It's not a single lavish stand-alone game, neither is it a compilation of 100 different mini-games. It has no official licenses or endorsements, nor are there any famous people featured in it. It lives up to the initial concept of offering a revolutionary control method, a brand new type of game. Moreover, it contains five different games, all of which have been individually designed so the player never tires of them. I don't think there has ever been a collection of games quite like this. Part 2 - Did Anyone Say It Should Look Realistic? Iwata: Wii Sports and the Mii Channel fit together very well, don't they? So much so that one would never guess that they had been developed separately. Eguchi: That's true. By being able to use a Mii that has been made in the Mii Channel as an in-game character, I feel these five sports games have come together very nicely. It even feels as if we designed Wii Sports this way so that everyone could appreciate how great the Mii concept is. Iwata: Before the Mii Channel and Mii characters were incorporated into the internal system functions, there were a lot of lengthy discussions about what to do about the characters in Wii Sports, weren't there? Eguchi: Yes. First of all, one of the most important concepts for Wii is making something that everyone in the family can relate to. We thought the best way to do that was by having something in the game that represented the player or other people in their family. Of course, the best way to do that is by having characters that resemble those people. Iwata: At the beginning, you even seriously considered having users take pictures with their digital cameras, putting that data on Wii via an SD card, and then pasting the pictures on the faces of their in-game characters. Eguchi: But we realised that hardly anyone would actually do this unless they were really familiar with what to do. So no matter how much you wanted to get someone in your family involved in a game, there would be no way to do it unless someone else set it up for them first. We then realised that even the act of making a character to represent yourself would have to be something that people would want to try out for themselves. It was around that time that we heard about the kokeshi idea from (Shigeru) Miyamoto-san. [Kokeshi are traditional wooden Japanese dolls. They are cylindrically-shaped, with no arms or legs.] Iwata: You mean the idea of putting a kokeshi version of yourself in a number of games, right? Eguchi: Right. Miyamoto-san had been talking about it for ages. And separately from that, there was a very simple prototype in which kokeshi-like characters were already implemented. Ota-san and many others who played this prototype said that they really felt "That's me!" when they played it. Ota: At the prototype stage, the characters that were used were very plain, simple models. This was mostly because our group didn't have a designer! Iwata: Ah, I see. Because there were only programmers in your group, you didn't have a designer! (laughs) Ota: That's right. When we tried playing with these very simple characters, we really felt that we were the ones in the game. We tried using Mario as a character once, but then it didn't feel like we were the ones playing anymore. It felt like Mario was actually the one playing and we were just controlling him. But it wasn't the same when we used these simple models. Rather than feeling that the kokeshi model was playing, it actually felt like we were the ones in the game. But with such simple models, it felt like something was missing. Around this time, the caricature software for the DS was created Iwata: We also talked about this in our discussion of the Mii Channel, but it was when I came across this software and showed it to Miyamoto-san that things really took off, wasn't it? Eguchi: Yes, although at first we were not talking about making the Mii Channel a core system function. We were only thinking about using this software to make the characters in Wii Sports. But the more we talked about it, the more we realised that rather than incorporating this software in a specific game, it would be better if there were a place on Wii where these characters could be made. Before we knew it, we were planning the Mii Channel. Iwata: We also had some good fortune here, didn't we? In a discussion of the course that led to the Mii concept, we can't forget about Mario Artist: Talent Studio, which Yamashita-san worked on a long time ago. Could you explain to us what kind of game that was? Yamashita: Sure. Talent Studio was a piece of software that was developed for the 64DD, a hardware attachment for the Nintendo 64. There was a series of software for the 64DD called Mario Artist, in which the player could make their own creations. To be a little more specific, there were three games in the series. Paint Studio allowed the player to draw pictures, Polygon Studio let the player create 3D models, and Talent Studio allowed the player to create their own characters. I worked on the Talent Studio project, and... well... let me just say that it was very tough! Eguchi: Yes, although at first we were not talking about making the Mii Channel a core system function. We were only thinking about using this software to make the characters in Wii Sports. But the more we talked about it, the more we realised that rather than incorporating this software in a specific game, it would be better if there were a place on Wii where these characters could be made. Before we knew it, we were planning the Mii Channel. All: (laughter) Yamashita: At that time, there was already a way to incorporate actual photos. Of course, SD cards weren't around yet, so the process wasn't that simple. The player had to use the Game Boy Camera to take pictures and then connect an accessory called the Capture Cassette to the 64DD. Just coming up with a way to let players do this was a lot of work, but what caused us the most trouble was finding ways to make use of the characters that the user had gone to all the trouble of making. We tried various ideas such as using the characters in mini-games, and... what do you call the type of game where the character has to move around on top of a ball? Iwata: I believe it's called "tamanori" [Tamanori means to balance oneself on top of a ball in Japanese.] Yamashita: Right, tamanori! We tried using the character in a tamanori mini-game and so on. We ended up making a movie mode where the player's characters could be used. In the end we weren't able to successfully use the character in an actual game. Looking back at it now, I was still new at the company, and honestly speaking it was a tough time for me. Of course, I had fun with parts of it too, but... Well, to cut a long story short, when I first heard about doing personalised characters for Wii, I thought "Oh no!" All: (laughter) Yamashita: At first I felt anxious about it, but as I heard more about how it would fit in with the Wii concept, I came to realise that it was a good idea. With Talent Studio ten years ago, we didn't have the concept of bringing the family together Iwata: Well, ten years ago, you started development with the simple idea that it would be fun to create a person that would appear in a game. Yamashita: Right. In those days, we were just happy that we could make and manipulate a 3D image. I feel that over the last ten years the idea has been pared down to its essentials, leaving Wii to inherit only the most important parts. Iwata: Were you able to apply any of the lessons you learned from Talent Studio to development this time around? Yamashita: I think so. One thing that didn't satisfy me about Talent Studio was the fact that we overdid the number of effects. I mean, when you decide to make caricatures, you want to try out a ton of different ideas. You want to try making realistic depictions, as well as trying to make them in the style of a manga or American comic book. Ten years ago, the design of the end result was disorderly and fractured, so with Wii Sports I kept telling everyone that all of the effects had to be neatly arranged. Around that time, someone showed me the DS caricature software and I thought "This is it! It's already done!" [Manga is the Japanese word for Japanese-style comic books.] All: (laughter) Iwata: It was already possible to use the characters you created in the DS, so it was very convincing, wasn't it? Yamashita: Definitely. Iwata: At that time the DS software was already up and running, and everyone who saw it said: "That's what we've been looking for!" If it wasn't for that, it wouldn't have all come together so quickly. Yamashita: Well, Miyamoto-san had been talking about the kokeshi idea for a long time, but we never really reached any conclusions about it. We weren't sure how or to what extent we should allow users to make their own characters. Speaking of which, after Talent Studio came Manebito! (laughs) Iwata: Ahh, Manebito was the same kind of software, wasn't it? Shimamura-san, could you explain a bit about it to us? Shimamura: Ahhh, I didn't think the topic of Manebito would come up - after all, it was a game that never saw the light of day! Well, Manebito was a game for the GameCube that came about in the same way as Talent Studio. It was even shown at exhibitions with the name Stage Debut. It was also a game that allowed you to design characters to look like yourself, but it put more emphasis on the ability to customise the characters. There were hundreds of outfits and accessories to choose from, allowing the user to create characters with an incredible amount of detail. In the end it was never released... The big problem was... well... what to do with the characters once you'd made them. All: (laughter) Shimamura: Once you had created a character that looked like yourself, well, that was it. When we asked people what they thought about it, they always asked "What are we supposed to do next?" Iwata: You ran into the same wall that they did with Talent Studio, didn't you? (laughs) Shimamura: We did. So when I heard that caricatures were going to be used in Wii Sports, I also thought "Oh no!" All: (laughter) Iwata: In other words, even though there are a lot of possibilities for playing with personalised characters, you couldn't narrow it down enough. So time just kept on going by while you were looking for an answer. Shimamura: That's right. We knew that even if there were a ton of mini-games, people would soon get tired of playing them, and in the end the characters they made wouldn't be used anymore. This problem was solved with Wii Sports by giving the characters a proper place, so to speak. In this game, you can have the experience of being a professional tennis player via your on-screen alter ego. I never realised how much fun it could be to feel like you're really in a proper game, as opposed to just in a mini-game that doesn't have any depth. Simply put, the level of emotional involvement in the game is completely different. Iwata: Even with the plain kokeshi characters, you really feel like it's you in there. I know I've already asked you all this before, but the kokeshi are very far from being realistic. Didn't you feel some uncertainty, that they were just too simple? Ota: I actually wanted to go ahead with just the plain kokeshi. During development when we tried it out with Mario, I was pretty nervous. I wouldn't have known what to do if the kokeshi were replaced! (laughs) Yamashita: The kokeshi might be simple, but your mind helps make it more real. In Wii Sports Baseball, even though the arms and legs aren't shown when the fielders move, it feels realistic when you see them in motion. Shimamura: Also, I think to some extent it's precisely because the default characters are simple that they fit so well with the concept of creating personalised characters. The facial features are so exaggerated, you just move the eyes and eyebrows apart a little bit and you've got Yamashita-san! (laughs) Eguchi: I think it's great fun to see characters that resemble people you know playing tennis or baseball like pros. Shimamura: People usually end up making people they know, don't they? In the end, I think that's the most fun. Yamashita: Speaking of which, the other day we got a family to come in to play Wii Sports so we could hear their impressions. We made Mii characters of everyone in the family in advance, and they were all really happy with it. When the grandmother made a nice catch in baseball, everyone was so excited! They were all saying "Way to go, Grandma!" Beforehand, I had wondered if something like that would happen. Needless to say, their reactions exceeded my expectations Part 3 - They Tried To Serve An Imaginary Ball! Iwata: Tennis, golf and baseball were the only three sports in the version of Wii Sports that we announced at E3. Now bowling and boxing have been added and there are five sports to choose from. Could you tell me about this development Eguchi: The primary reason was the fact that Wii Sports is a product that will be sold worldwide. As you just mentioned, it was already determined from the start that tennis, golf and baseball would be included in the package. Tennis and golf are sports that are enjoyed around the world, but it concerned us that baseball isn't very big in Europe. At first we thought that three sports provided enough variety to allow anyone to enjoy the game. However, in countries where baseball isn't normally played, there would effectively be only two sports to choose from. So we realised that the game needed more variety, and we started thinking about other sports that we could add. Shimamura: We were trying to think of sports that are known throughout the world that most people have played before. We also wanted to add sports that even mothers, who might not play sports very often, would want to try out. This led to the idea of bowling, and as usual we had the programmers make us a demo right away. (laughs) They worked on it for a few days, and when we had a chance to try it out everyone fell in love with it as soon as the ball started rolling down the lane. So, we decided to go ahead with it. Eguchi: Around the same time, a plan was also put together for boxing, another sport that is enjoyed around the world. Since the Nunchuk and the Wii Remote are both going to be included with Wii, it's possible to hold one in each hand, and we started working on it so we could try this idea out. Honestly speaking, we were only going to use either bowling or boxing depending on which one turned out better. But once we had made some progress on the prototypes, we realised that we had created two games that worked so well that we couldn't choose between them. We got a little ahead of ourselves and joked about saving one of them for Wii Sports 2, but in the end these games were so good that we wanted to get them out to the public as soon as possible. We also felt quite strongly that we wanted to tell the world right away how much fun they could have bowling and boxing on Wii. So we ended up asking the programmers and designers to go ahead with both of them! Iwata: So they thought you were only going to request one, but in the end you asked for both. Weren't they surprised? Eguchi: Yes! (laughs) But now everyone is very satisfied with the decision to add both of them. I think we made the right decision. Iwata: Hearing all this, it seems that everyone had favorable feedback during development. However, I can imagine that you might have been a little anxious until people from outside the company had a chance to play these games. Was this true for you, Eguchi-san? Eguchi: Hmm... I actually wasn't that anxious. It might be because I'm personally not a big fan of realistic looking games... Iwata: After all, you are the one who made "Animal Crossing!" (laughs) Eguchi: Yes, well I am the type of person who loves changing my character into new clothes, putting on a hat and going fishing! (laughs) So I feel that rather than spend money trying to pursue a photo-realistic game experience, I would rather focus on conveying the freshness of the Wii experience to our customers. Of course, it isn't possible to predict whether or not these games will be accepted by everyone around the world, but after seeing the response at E3 it became apparent to us that users were enjoying it in the same way we thought they would. From that point on, we were able to continue development without hesitation. Iwata: What about you, Ota-san? Ota: I guess you could say that I wasn't anxious at all either! (laughs) Iwata: So, you were more confident than anxious? Ota: Well, yes. Everyone had confidence in these games, but for me that confidence wasn't about getting people around the world to play them. For me it meant that I felt sure I could get my family to play these games, even my wife who never plays games, or my daughter who is still in preschool and doesn't have good hand-eye co-ordination yet. Or perhaps even my wife's friends, and their husbands. You know, before you have a family of your own, you end up spending most of your time with people who have similar interests as yourself, and this tends to limit the group of people you make games for. But once you have a family, you end up meeting new people that don't necessarily share the same interests as you. Before I had a family, I was always thinking of people similar to myself when I made games, but now I have a strong urge to make games that will also be liked by these new people around me, people that don't normally play games. That's why, when I was making Tennis for Wii Sports, my first reaction when I saw how much everyone liked it was thinking that the non-gamers around me would play something like this. For me, it wasn't about whether it would sell well or be a worldwide success. I was only thinking of the people around me, and that I would be satisfied if they were happy playing it. Iwata: That's exactly what we mean by expanding the gaming population, isn't it? Ota: It is. And the result is that the people coming to the exhibitions are really enjoying themselves. Iwata: What about you, Yamashita-san? Were you anxious or confident? Yamashita: Well, I wasn't completely at ease, but I was looking forward to seeing everyone's reactions, feeling free of responsibility in a sense. During E3, games with unbelievable graphics using an incredible number of polygons were lined up in the surrounding booths, and I could barely contain my excitement just thinking about putting Wii Sports next to them. Iwata: And what about you, Shimamura-san Shimamura: Honestly, I was a bit anxious, but when I saw the reactions of everyone at E3 first-hand I became very confident that it would be a success. For example, when I was standing next to the demo stations and watching visitors play Wii Sports Baseball, they were giving each other advice such as "keep your elbows down when you swing." (laughs) Of course, this itself has nothing to do with the game, but since it's easier to swing naturally and get the timing right if you have good form, I think it actually makes it easier to hit the ball in the game. Seeing this kind of interaction, I was able to imagine parents and their children having the same conversation. More than anything else, this is what made me feel that our efforts were worthwhile. Also, there was an American who had probably spent the whole day walking around E3 and, after playing Wii Sports Baseball, suddenly turned to me and said excitedly "I've seen a lot of games with realistic graphics, but this is the most realistic thing at E3 this year! This is actually real!" (laughs) And I wasn't even wearing a uniform or displaying an exhibitor's pass. I was just there as a normal visitor Eguchi: When we have people come in to try out the games, we find that they pick up on them more quickly if they have actually played these sports before. So you will find that a father who has been playing baseball for a long time will be better at the game than his son who loves playing video games. Iwata: This would be unthinkable with conventional video games, wouldn't it? Eguchi: Absolutely. When I heard that story, I knew for sure that these were games that everyone in the family would play. Iwata: These games will be played across generations, won't they? I can imagine there being more conversations where, for example, a grandfather tells his grandchildren "You know, I used to play a bit of tennis myself." Eguchi: Sure. At first glance, it appears that cute doll-like characters are playing sports, but these games have been designed so that when a person who has actually played the sport picks up the controller, they can tell how similar the game is to the actual sport. Yamashita: Something like this also happened during the Wii Preview event. There was an older gentleman who had a very good score in Baseball. When I asked him, he told me that he used to play baseball. This was obviously reflected in his score, which was very high. Iwata: No kidding! How old would you say he was? Yamashita: Oh, I would say that he was probably in his 50s or 60s Shimamura: There was also a lady in her 60s who was unusually good at Bowling. When I talked to her, I found out that bowling was very popular when people her age were in their youth. So she had a kind of natural ability, the right feel for the game. Without even explaining the mechanics of the game, she already knew how the ball would turn and where to aim, and the pins just kept falling. Iwata: During the Wii Preview, when I saw an elderly gentleman smiling to himself while playing golf, I felt immense pride in our work. I am sure that with a conventional controller, people like him would never have played our games. Shimamura: There were a lot of older people at the golf booth, weren't there? Among them was a group of executive-looking types wearing smart suits, and when someone sliced his shot he would lament to himself "I sliced it again!" or "That's what always happens!" Strictly speaking, their stance shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the shot curves in the game... Eguchi: For me, the most impressive story of that kind is the one about tossing the ball in tennis. Iwata: That was really something, wasn't it? (laughs) Eguchi: Before E3, we had a few internal people play the game for the first time, and they really started to get into their tennis match. They were holding the Wii Remote in their right hand, and before you knew it they were using their free left hand to try to toss an imaginary ball up for a serve! All: (laughter) Eguchi: Of course they weren't holding anything in their left hand, so this motion didn't affect the service in the game. But I could understand why they were doing it! (laughs) Shimamura: It was really unforgettable! (laughs) It really made me realize what a good product we had made Iwata: There's another episode that I don't think any of you have heard yet. Before going to E3, Nintendo's Board of Directors had a chance to play Wii Sports. All of them are older than me and they were playing in front of a huge plasma screen. When they were playing, they would sometimes start running towards the screen while swinging their remotes! (laughs) All: (laughter) Iwata: That made me think "We've got something pretty awesome here!" (laughs) Part 4 - Games That Even the People Watching Can Enjoy Iwata: A lot of people have already found Wii Sports to be extremely approachable and fun in a really easy-to-comprehend, intuitive way. But on the other hand, it seems that the more experienced gamers are, the more concerned they are that they will quickly tire of the game. This seems to be due to a vague association between games which are easy to grasp and games that lack depth, and therefore soon become boring. But once you actually play this game, it becomes clear that this couldn't be further from the truth. I'd like therefore to ask the individual directors about the depth the games in Wii Sports have. Let's begin with Tennis Ota: Ok. As someone who has always developed "traditional" games, I knew that Tennis would have to contain those deeper elements that would appeal to gamers. The first such idea I had was that the ball's movements could be altered by the way the player swings the controller, be that a slice, a topspin shot, or whatever Iwata: That still surprises me. I'm still not completely sure how the movement of the ball can vary so much, just through a swing of the Wii Remote. Ota: To put it simply, it's because we put a lot of thought into it! (laughs) Iwata: Are there any other elements in the game that add to its depth? Ota: The fundamental factor giving the game depth comes from the fact that there is such a huge level of variation in the controls. So much in fact, that you could probably say it's impossible to hit the same shot twice. As the data picked up by the Wii concerning how you moved your wrist and the angle you turned the controller is all analogue, if you hit the ball 100 times, that action is going to be reflected on the screen in 100 different ways. What I'm saying is that every time you play, the conditions will be slightly different. The player can enjoy trying out different strokes to see what happens, constantly learning in a sensory way. I think it will take a long time for the player to get the hang of all of the movements, and the process of feeling oneself improve at the game is really enjoyable for the player. Another, more "game-like" element is the fact that we have made around 60 computer-controlled characters for the players to take on. As some of those characters are formidable opponents , it is enjoyable to work on acquiring the skills you'll need to beat them. In addition, there is a "Skill Level" in the game which gives the player an easy-to-understand numerical indication of how they are progressing, which they can check at any time. By watching this "Skill Level" increase, you can feel yourself developing as a player, which is fun. There is also a recent feature we added called the "Rocket Serve." If you time your swing of the remote just right and hit the ball when it is at its highest point, you will hit a really fast serve. Iwata: The addition of this single feature really changes the feel of a match. Ota: That's right. It really adds to the excitement for both the server and the player receiving the serve Iwata: Yamashita-san, can you tell us about the depth that Baseball Iwata: So for instance, you could make your opponent think you're going to pitch a fastball, but then actually throw a forkball. [A forkball is a type of pitch, favored by a number of famous Japanese pitchers, where the ball is held between the first two fingers, causing it to drop suddenly as it nears the batter.] Iwata: Right. The game has that kind of fun factor which develops off-screen. That kind of fun was also in Baseball back in the NES days. During our internal testing, you could overhear voices that you wouldn't normally hear during testing. Even if they were quite far away, you could tell right away: "Ah, they're playing baseball!" Iwata: And how about Boxing? Yamashita: At first glance, you may think Boxing is simply a game where you have to land punches on your opponent, but the important thing is defense, or dodging. This is something I always tell people when they first give Boxing a go: you can dodge punches really well by just leaning your body to the sides in the normal fighting posture Iwata: Not by moving your hands? Yamashita: That's right. I actually always tell players to move their bodies instead of moving their hands. In fact, the very act of moving your body causes the controller to move, so it only feels like you're holding your hands still. But when giving advice to beginners, I find they can learn to avoid punches better if you tell them to dodge using their body rather than their hands. It's a lot of fun as you sway your body and the Mii on the screen dodges in the same way. So in terms of the best strategy for the game, rather than just blindly throwing punches, it is more effective to first dodge your opponent's punches before getting a punch in on the counter-attack Shimamura: I remember something funny from when I was doing the Wii Preview. Before the visitors arrived, I gave a simple demonstration of the game to all of the girls working in the Nintendo booth, and told them "it's good to throw a punch just after you dodge." They seemed to really enjoy it, and throughout the show they kept playing against the visitors. They got really good at counter-attacking, and I got a bit flustered and had to ask them to go easy on the visitors! (laughs) Yamashita: Once you've grasped the skills such as how best to time your punches depending on the distance between you and your opponent, the game suddenly becomes a whole lot more enjoyable. Needless to say, as you progress further in the game, the Mii opponents you face become tougher. The sense that it's easy at the beginning, but gets gradually more challenging is something you can always expect from any Nintendo games. I mean that's classic Nintendo! (laughs) Iwata: At the same time, it has all that adrenaline-pumping excitement of a sports tournament, which is also typical of Nintendo. Yamashita: Right. For the really good players, there is that aspect to the game of "come and have a go if you think you're tough enough!" Iwata: Now, Shimamura-san. Tell us about Golf... Shimamura: Ok. What I really want to tell game fans about are the golf courses in the game. Veteran gamers are probably familiar with the very first Golf game for the NES. Iwata: I know it! I worked as the only programmer on that game! (laughs) Shimamura: That's right! (laughs) We've actually taken nine of the best holes from the original 18 on NES Golf for Wii Sports Golf, and brought them back to life in 3D. So people now in their 30s, some of whom may not have played video games for years, will be able to enjoy taking a trip down memory lane when they see what those old-school courses look like in 3D. This overlaps with what Ota-san said about what makes Tennis fun, but to ensure that even the slightest wobble in the swing, as well as its speed, will be reflected in the shot, we have done a lot of fine-tuning. This means that there really are a lot of elements to master. Iwata: I see. So tell us about Bowling. Shimamura: Of course in Bowling, like the other games, the player enjoys analogue-style responsiveness, but I think the easiest way to get you to grasp the depth of this game is by telling you one single fact: in all of the endless testing which Nintendo has done on this game, no one has ever achieved a perfect score Iwata: Really? Is that right? Shimamura: If you get used to the game, it is not that difficult to get a few strikes in a row. In fact, when you're on good form, it's fun to see how many strikes you can get. Even if someone has never touched the game before, they will be able to knock down a fair number of pins. After all, we did choose to add bowling because it's a sport that everyone can enjoy. But if you are trying to get a perfect score, it's actually extremely difficult. Iwata: So no one has done it yet? Shimamura: Well, at the very least, not to my knowledge. Eguchi: This is true of all the games on Wii Sports but, in contrast to regular games, it is difficult to do exactly the same thing twice. If you get three strikes in a row, you might think: "Today's my day! I can get a perfect score!" You might think that, but when you come to bowl the next frame, even though the ball is spinning just as you want it to, it may suddenly go straight and you end up with a split. You're left really puzzled: "I wonder why I can't bowl it the same way..." Shimamura: But if you do bowl it in exactly the same way, the ball will roll the same way. Iwata: There aren't any arbitrary random factors, are there? Shimamura: None at all. Iwata: That would be a topic worth exploring further sometime. Something else I enjoyed about Bowling was that you use the button to let go of the ball, and if you are a bit late releasing it, the ball will bounce. You put a lot of thought into things like that, didn't you? Shimamura: Yes, there are a lot of features packed in there. For instance, in bowling games up to now you could probably only bowl the ball in front of you. But in Wii Sports Bowling, if you bowl the ball behind you, it will roll in that direction. Also, if you really want to, you can even throw it into the other lanes! Iwata: What? You can throw it into the other lanes Shimamura: You can. In previous bowling games, you had to select the position to stand in, the direction and the power in order to bowl. I don't think that kind of system would have enabled you to do something like that, but Wii Sports Bowling allows the player to do all those things they might want to try. Iwata: I didn't know that! (laughs) Shimamura: This is something that is true for all five of the games on Wii Sports, but there are three types of training games on Bowling. Well, they are really just practice modes, but you can get really into the training and the hours just disappear Eguchi: Since there is a score in these training games, they can suck you in just as much as the rest of the game. Shimamura: That's right. Without realizing it, you can keep on playing them again and again. A full training game might last three to five minutes, but you might feel you've messed up and keep restarting it after ten seconds or so. When you add up all those short times, before you know it you've played for half an hour or an hour. Yamashita: Among the Nintendo staff, the competition for who could get the highest score on Target Practice Mode was pretty fierce! There were people who were playing Target Practice Mode whenever they could find free time. Shimamura: There were lots of conversations with people asking: "What was your score?", or people sneaking a look at other people's scores and being surprised. There was an enjoyment that was a bit reminiscent of the NES days. Iwata: The fact that people were talking about scores in itself felt like something that hadn't happened in a long time. Perhaps in games today, scores have lost their value as a topic of conversation. Shimamura: Yes, you may be right. Iwata: Alright, at this point I have a video I would like to show to you all. The video is of a development tool for use with Wii, or should I say it is middleware created by an overseas software company that works with Nintendo. I thought it would be a good idea to show it to all of you since you developed Wii Sports by bringing together a variety of prototype software. So I've decided to work it into this interview. Let's take a look. Iwata: To put it simply, with this tool, programming games that use the Wii Remote becomes very easy. Takeda-san is here to explain a bit more about this. Takeda-san, I know you're very busy so thank you very much for joining us. Takeda: It's my pleasure. As you saw from the video, this is one of the development tools for Wii. Nintendo puts the same amount of effort and commitment into the creating tools like this as we do into the development of our software. I'm going to explain a little of the background to this. When we released the Nintendo 64 hardware, it was a truly dramatic change as games went from two to three-dimensional. Looking back at the development at that time, including outside software developers, there was a huge divide between those that could quickly adapt to this change, and those that took more time. This resulted in severe delays in the release of software. This time, with the new challenges Wii presents to programmers, there was a fear that there would again be a divide between those who could successfully adapt to the new system and its implementation method, and those who could not. At Nintendo, we have people like Ota-san who have done a great deal of fundamental research on the new hardware, so we don't have anything to worry about, but of course there are places where there aren't people like him. For that reason, as a way of providing a new development environment, we decided we should be able to furnish developers with useful tools like this one. After all, it would be a real waste if people stumbled right at the start of the development process, and all these ideas they went to the trouble of coming up with never came to fruition. Also, another reason was that we want games to include a lot of ideas which don't come just from programmers, who have scientific backgrounds, but also from those game developers with non-scientific backgrounds. Up to now, those non-scientific people have had to go to the programmers and ask them to implement their ideas. If they were able to use this tool to put together simple test software by themselves, based on ideas they came up with, this would lead to a lot of their ideas being used in finished products. So we thought that if we can provide a tool like this, it will become possible for functioning games to be put together even by those who aren't able to write programs. Since we have proposed a completely new input method, we felt we also had to provide new development technology. At Nintendo, a lot of staff can program and so ideas begin to take shape quickly, but we realized that in the future we wanted to share these ideas with developers outside the company to aid the development of new products. Eguchi: As someone who doesn't know how to program, being allowed to try out my own experiments with a tool like this is really great. I think there are a surprisingly large number of people out there who are wondering: "I wonder if this kind of game would work?" In fact, there are a lot of people putting games they have made themselves up on the web. If people like that were able to easily put together new types of games that use the Wii Remote, the number of people making games would increase. That's something I'm really excited about. Iwata: Being a programmer myself, I can appreciate how when Ota-san and I started making games, it was possible to release much simpler products than you are today. Because we have witnessed all the stages of development of games from their simple beginnings, we have been able to keep up with the complex technology we have today. But because of that complexity, the gap between people able to get into games programming and those who can't has suddenly become an extremely wide one. At a time like this, putting out this kind of tool will inspire the development of all sorts of unpredictable software. Takeda: With this kind of tool, you can find out really quickly whether an idea actually works with the resources you have. If you spend a long time trying out something and find out that it doesn't work in the end, that's not an efficient use of time. If these trials are time-consuming, this means higher labor costs, so for this reason it becomes vital to have a suitable environment for development. To put it simply, it is necessary to have tools that link ideas to the final product. The video we just saw was one example of that. We want to share these kind of tools widely among Wii software developers. Ota: With a tool like this it is certainly going to become possible to try out lots of ideas. As Wii Sports is a game born out of the selection of ideas from various experiments, I can appreciate the true value of this. Even if it is necessary to polish it up to get it ready for release, that simple feeling at the start that an idea works well is very important. If this development tool had been available from the start, it is quite likely that there would be even more games included on Wii Sports. Eguchi: Which will end up making the producers' lives more difficult All: (laughter) Iwata: Thank you very much, Takeda-san. Takeda: You're very welcome. Iwata: To finish up the interview, let's have a closing remark from each of the individuals who made the games on Wii Sports. We'll start with you, Ota-san. Ota: Wii Sports in its finished form is a game that both game fans and the people around them will find equally enjoyable. It's very accessible, but at the same time it has all the elements which will allow the player to get really absorbed in the game. To give an example of a slightly unusual way to enjoy Tennis, you can play doubles, controlling all four of the players yourself! There are so many ways to play, I just want everyone to have a go! Yamashita: What I feel certain of after watching a lot of people test this game is that with the five sports, tennis, golf, baseball, bowling and boxing all packaged together, there is something for players of all ages. I want the whole family to play Wii Sports together. Shimamura: Putting it very simply, I want everyone to use Wii Sports to become more active and work up a sweat. I want to see players punching the air! Iwata: Absolutely! Wii Sports is a game that will have players jumping around and punching the air in triumph, isn't it? Shimamura: Yes, you see everyone doing it Yamashita: They give each other high fives too! (laughs) Iwata: They do! (laughs) Finally, Eguchi-san Eguchi: Looking at games in the past, there are very few examples of games that have the capacity of being able to draw people around into playing them, or which the people watching enjoy just as much as the player. I feel really happy to have been a part of this and what I want most is for a lot of people to experience the game. Wii Sports is also cheap! It's a real bargain! (laughs) [This applies only in Japan. In Europe, North America, and Australia, Wii Sports will be included with the Wii console.] Iwata: Yes, I think it's a real bargain. In fact, Nintendo's intention behind making it that cheap was to give the message: "If you buy a Wii and don't play Wii Sports, you will be missing out!" Eguchi: I think we have come up with a product about which we can say that with pride! I strongly urge everyone to just give it a go! Iwata: It's been a long time since I have seen a game where so many of the people watching were waiting their turn, with that look on their face saying "let me try it out!" In the past, video games really had that factor, but I feel a deep concern that this has gradually weakened over the years. With Wii Sports, what I am most pleased about is that it really has that "let me try!" factor in abundance. Then, five seconds after they start playing, you can see that the new player has already got the hang of it. That's what's great about Wii Sports. Eguchi: You can guarantee that anyone playing the game will be wearing a huge smile. There aren't many games you can say that about. Iwata: Personally speaking, I just want as many people as possible to give it a try. Thank you very much for your time today, gentlemen.